Stamatoglou/Stamatiou

[cressie]

Hi Nicholas

As you have family connection to the Stamatoglou/Stamatiou family you may be able to confirm....

A. That Stamatoglou and Stamatiou is the same family name (particularly in relation to Stamatis Stamatiou and Stamatis Stamatoglou)?

B. That Stavros Stamatoglou (Deputy Mayor Castellorizo) is/is not the same person as 'A' mentioned above.

Hope you can assist.

Allan

[Administrator]

Allan,

The Stamatiou/Stamatoglou clan is indeed one very large extended family comprising various branches that stem back to a 'Stamatios' who was originally from Antifilo (modern Kas). One of the branches of this clan also goes by the name of 'Kontouzoglou'.

The Stavros Stamatoglou you refer to was one of the sons of Nikolaos Stamatiou, one of the island's great benefactors in the late 19th and early 20th century. Nikolaos married twice and his sons were Stavros, Evangelos, Mihail, Emmanuel (some of his descendants are in Perth), Antonios ('Hatsantonis') and Stamatios.

As the name Stamatios (colloquially 'Stamatis') recurs regularly in each branch of the family, care should be taken when comparing names.

Let me know if you need more information.

Nicholas

[cressie]

Hi Nicholas

Thanks for that. This helps me piece this family together as I can now link existing listed children to the father, Nikolaos.

I do have an Antonios Levissianos (aka Hatziantoniou), could this be the same person as the Antonios Stamatiou 'Hatsantonas' you mention above? This person lived in Alexandria Egypt and some of his family ended up in mainland Greece and Canada. A bit of a wild guess on this.

Also Stamatis (John) Stamatis who came to WA (b1892) could he be the Stamatios you mention above? This persons father was Nikolaos and fits the timeframe. This family also went by another surname of Caragianis. Again another wild guess!

The other sons Stavros, Mihail and Emmanuel I already have documented.

Let me know if you can confirm either way.

Allan

[Administrator]

Allan,

I doubt that the Antonios you mention (who you say took on the adopted 'Livissianos') is part of this family - from what I have seen, there was no strong connection to Livisi. The towns where the Stamatiou family were represented were mainly Antifilo and Finika, though, of course, there may have been exceptions.

The 'Hatsantonis' (Antonios) who was the son of Nikolaos Stamatiou (1835-1905) married Avra Nikolaou Kondyliou. Avra died aged 28 in 1917. Hatsantonis was the youngest of Nikolaos's many children.

Not sure about the Stamatis you mention - could you give me more details? Mihail Nikolaou Stamatiou's daughter (Eleni) married Panagiotis Karayiannis, but I don't think this is who you are referring to.

Let me know.

Nicholas

[cressie]

Hi Nicholas

Thanks for the feedback. Yes the son, Stamatios, is the only problem left. There are two I know of that may be the son of Nikolaos. The one who came to Perth and went by John and also had the second surname of Caragianis. He died in Perth in 1953 with parents nominated as Nicholas and Despina.

Then there is your great grandfather Stamatiou and maybe you would know if he is the son of Nikolaos. I only know of one child, your grandmother, Triantafylia, are there other siblings that may establish where your Stamatiou fits in.

There is another Stamatis Stamatiou who married Christina Kontouzolgou, the daughter of Gigorios and Marou (nee Tsolakis). Marou is related to me. I have been told that he is Mihail's son, who is the son of Nikolaos, the benefactor. This seems to tie in well. Strange that a Stamatiou would marry a Kontouzolgou especially when it is the same family as you advise. They must be cousins and supports your info that it is a large extended family.

Let me know if anything comes out of this and whether you can resolve the Stamatios query from the above.

Allan

[Alec]

Hi Nicholas,

My maternal grandmother, Evdokia Kanganas nee Harami, had a sister Elissava Harami. Elissava married Stamatiou Stamatis, I assume on Castellorizo, probably around the late 1890's. Would you have a copy of the wedding dowry contract of this marriage?

Also I believe Stamatiou had at least one brother. Would you be able to find a dowry contract for his marriage?

Elissava and Stamatiou had two sons, who I believe were both born on Castellorizo, one was Agapitos, later known as Jack and the other Haramis, later known as John. Would you have a record of their birth?

Elissava and her family migrated to Australia and lived in Fremantle. However I am unable to find any record of Stamatiou in Australia, and none of my cousins in Perth know anything about him. He may have died on Castellorizo, could you check if there is a death record for him in Castellorizo?

Thanks.

Alec Protos.

[cressie]

Hi Alec

I cannot assist re Stamatiou but perhaps you can assist further re this family? I have Elissava (also known as Elizabeth) dying in West Perth on 9 Sep 1957 and buried grave AA 0156. There is no indication of Stamatiou being buried there. I did not have any info on their children until your post. However the grantee for the grave is a Michael John STEWART which perhaps you can explain? Perhaps the family changed their surname to Stewart or perhaps a Son In Law?

There seems to be a lot of Stamatis Stamatis's in Australia and elsewhere. Also some with surname of Stamatis were previously Caragianis and some Stamatis surnames changed to the surname of Agapitou. Also there are some Stamatis families in Australia with no Cazzie connection. In all a very difficult family to work out and I am sure I have duplications on the Castellorizian Genealogy Website. This family name along with the Lucas families are very difficult to manage and are full of omissions and duplications.

Regards
Allan

[Alec]

Hi Allan,

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, Elissava's sons, Jack and John, changed their names to Stewart. Michael John Stewart is Elissava's grandson, son of Jack.
I will send you separately what I know about the family for you to add to your website.

Regards,

Alec Protos.

[Alec]

Hi Allan and Nicholas,

I have finally established that Elissava Stamatis's husband was Stamatis Agapitou and that he did come to Australia and died on 9/2/1938 in Perth, WA aged 88y. His eldest son Agapitos Agapitou, also known as Jack Stamatis and later Jack Stewart, was born in 1906 on Castellorizo. So Elissava and Stamatis were probably married around 1905 or a little earlier on Castellorizo.

So, Nicholas, if you could possibly squeeze in the time I would really appreciate it if you could check for the wedding dowry contract of Elissava Harami and Stamatis Agapitou. And also if you could check for the birth records for their sons, Agapitos Agapitou in 1906 and Haramis Agapitou around 1913. Haramis was later known as John Stamatis.

Many Thanks,

Alec Protos.

[Alec]

Allan and Nicholas,

Allan, you have used the name "Stamatiou Agapitos Stamatis" on your website for Elissava's husband. I know that there is a contradiction about his name on Elissava's and her husband's death notices. On Elissava's Death Notice in 1957 it states that her husband was "Stamatiou Stamatis", and this is presumably why you have used the above name, Allan, having assumed that his father's name was Agapitos. Whereas on his own Death Notice in 1938 his name is "Stamatis Agapitou". This latter name is used in the Karrakatta Cemetery, Perth, Death Records and presumably on his grave headstone, if there is one. It would also be the name on his Death Certificate, as that is the name in the WA BDM Death Index. So I can't see how we could logically go with any name other than "Stamatis Agapitou".

It would be very confusing for future researchers to find these two different names.

To clear it up, if we could find their Marriage Dowry Contract, it would be interesting to see the names used there. The marriage would probably have been in 1905 or a little earlier, as their eldest son, Agapitos, was born in 1906 on Castellorizo. So Nicholas, or Allan, as I believe that you also have a copy of the Dowry Contracts, although I know that you are both extremely busy, could one of you please check the Dowry Contract. Thanks very much.

Alec Protos.

[Nicholas]

Hi Alec,

I have some information for your regarding Elisavet Agapitou Ioannou Harami (her full maiden name).

Firstly, she was married twice; her first marriage was to Emmanuel Pavlou Yianglitsis in 1896.  I am not certain in what circumstances that marriage ended, but it was probably through the death of the husband.

She then married Stamatios H'Agapitou H'Konstandinou Komninou in 1901 which appears to be the marriage you're after.

Let me know if I'm on the right track.

Regards,

Nicholas

[Alec]

Hi Nicholas,

Great to have the Forum back again.

Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year and that all is well with yourself and family.

Thanks for the above. You certainly are on the right track.

It's so good to see the full and correct Greek names.

With regard to Elisavet, that means that her father was Agapitos and her grandfather Ioannis, doesn't it?

And with Stamatios, his surname was Komninou, his father was Agapitos Komninou and his grandfather Konstandinos Komninou. Right?

Would we be able to see who gave Elisavet away in both her marriages and anything else of interest on the Dowry Contracts? Thanks.

So once again thanks for the above , that was really revelatory.

Alec Protos.

[Administrator]

Hi Alec,

Yes, you are correct about both names - the grandfather's name was used to distinguish persons (usually cousins) with identical names.

The first dowry contract is very short and reads:

There appeared before me today Agapitos I Haramis and Emmanuel Pavlou Yianglitsis who declared that the said Agapitos had betrothed his daughter Elisavet to the said Emmanuel and gives to her by way of dowry a house located above the house of Mihail H'Aristeidhou Salipas and 40 eikosafranga and that the wedding will take place after the sarantoimeron in 1897.

In Castellorizo, 19 November 1896
[signatures follow]

The second contract, which is dated 31 January 1901, is longer (dowry contracts became more formal in this period). Once again, Agapitos gives his daughter in marriage and provides by way of dowry the following:

An incomplete house above the house of Zoe Christodoulaki which will be completed within 2 years, plus 40 eikosafranga. Pending completion of the works on the house, the bride and groom will reside in the house of his son-in-law, Nikolaos Agapitou Papagrigoriou. Plus a plot of land in the Mandraki at the 'kato mylon'.

An annotation of 3 February 1901 records that the wife of Nikolaos Papagrigoriou, Evdokia (the bride’s aunt), also accepted the obligation to guarantee the repairs and to provide accommodation for the couple in the interim. The bride’s brothers, Ioannis, Vasilios and Paraskevas also accept the same obligation.

Let me know if you have any queries.

Nicholas

[Alec]

Hi Nicholas,

Thanks so much for that. Very interesting the mention of my grandfather Nikolaos Agapitou Papagrigoriou. He was known as Nicholas Kanganas, this confirms his original name of Papagrigoriou. There was considerable doubt among the family about this name, so again this shows the tremendous value of these dowry contracts.

Extraordinary how Cassies changed their name so much. For instance, with Elisavet, her husband was, as above, Stamatios A. K. Komninou, so Elisavet would have been Elisavet Komninou after marriage. But after coming to Australia, Stamatios used the name Stamatios Agapitou and presumably she used the name Agapitou also. But later she was known as Elisavet (Elizabeth) Stamatis. Her sons used the name Stamatis, but later changed to Stewart. Can be very confusing for family history researchers.

Thanks Again,

Alec.

[jmk1988]

Good afternoon,



My grandmother Chrysanthe was a Stamatiou/Stamatoglou her father's name was Ioannis who had gone to and from Australia Kastelorizo/Asia Minor and her grandfather was Mihail. My question is  were the Stamatiou's actually Kastellorizian or originally from Asia Minor?


Thank you kindly.