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Post by Administrator on Oct 7, 2007 16:45:41 GMT 10
Here is an exchange that occurred under the 'Welcome' thread. It is reproduced here for ease of reference:
Hi my name is Samantha Kootsookos, my paternal grandfather was Jack Kootsookos from Castelorizo... I think he left in the early 1900's for Far North Qld... the history is a bit sketchy... he married an aussie and they had a daughter & two sons: Christina, Anthony(Tony) & my dad - Victor... they've all passed on now....but it's interesting for me to see this website... I'm not aware of any Greek relatives although I'm sure I have many as I believe my grandfather had 6 sisters...if you think we may be related i'd love to hear from you...cheers sam
Sam,
From the record search I have quickly done with National Archives (www.naa.gov.au), it appears that there are at least three files on your grandfather, who is described as 'Jack Antoniou Kootsookos', in their holdings.
The first two are his alien registration files from the WWI period when all 'aliens' were required to go through a cumbersome registration process that monitored their movements in the Commonwealth. His first place of registration is recorded in the index as Paraparap in the Northern Territory.
The third file is his naturalisation file from around 1922.
You can order copies of these three files by visiting the website. They may be ordered in digital or hard copy format. They should provide you with a lot of new information about your grandfather's early days in Australia.
I'll also check to see if there are any records of your family in the dowry archive.
Nicholas
Nicholas , isnt Kootsookas an alternative for Koutsoukos or anglisation of it.
regards George
George,
Yes, it is - there are so many ways to transliterate Greek names into English that variations such as this one were inevitable.
What is clear here is that the variant 'Kootsookos' was used by this particular Castellorizian from the moment of his arrival, probably because the officer writing the name down on arrival thought such a spelling closest to what he heard. Alternatively, and depending on the travel document he was presented with (if any), the spelling could have its origins in its place of issue.
Perhaps Sam could tell us more when she accesses the files?
I will open a separate thread for Koutsoukos/Kootsookos to encourage others to contribute.
Nicholas
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Post by evdokia on Oct 14, 2007 14:02:45 GMT 10
Hi fellow forum members,
I am a Koutsoukos, so I may be able to help!
Please refer to Allan Cresswell's site, as I have given Allan all I have for the present.
My family came to Perth WA in the early 1950's. Some of the family went to NSW, South Aust, and America. Though in saying this, there were some that came to WA in the early 1890's, but they spelt their name with an 'is'. The late Prof Albert Koutsoukis was part of that family. Some spell it with a ch in the, as did my grandmother's brother Micheal who went to Texas!
Albert was a historian, and he found it extremely difficult back in the 1960's, when he started the family tree. To make matters worse, both my dad's parents were named Koutsoukos, and we could not find a link or relationship between the two, which is quite strange for such a small island like Kastellorizo. Back in the1700's part of the Koutsoukos link comes from Andros.
We have a marriage to a Chrisafina Liveris on our side of the tree. My dad made note that her father was French and his name in fact was Luis Oliver, and the Kazzies named him o Liveris, which later became Liveris
Perhaps together we can solve the inconsistencies.
Keep up the postings guys, so me may leave a legacy for our grandchildren, to enable them to have something of their roots.
Evdokia (Eva) Koutsoukos
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sam
New Member
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Post by sam on Oct 15, 2007 20:02:45 GMT 10
Nicholas, thank you very much for all that helpful info....my mother has an 'alien' registration card that was issued to my grandfather all those years ago and also some family photos of my granparents and my aunt and uncle when they were kids....perhaps one day I can scan them onto this website ....my grandmother's name was Eva Bell before she married Jack...both died well before I was born...Jack died sometime in 1944 and Eva sometime in 1962.....I believe.... According to my mother one of Jack's sisters may have been killed by the Germans during ww2 on the island....apparently he used to send money back to Castelorizo for his sisters. I think many others probably suffered the same fate...
thanks to all those who have responded so far the interconnections fascinate me... Sam
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Post by cressie on Oct 21, 2007 10:08:19 GMT 10
Hi All Looking at Samatha's posting, what Nicholas has located and what I know about Eva Koutsoukos family tree the following seems a likely posibility....... Eva's grandfather was Elias Iakovos Koustsoukos (b c1860 Castellorizo). He was the second son of Iakovas (or Jacobos) Koutsoukos and Chrisafina (nee Liveris). Iakovas had an elder brother, Antonios Jacobos Koutsoukos, who married a Evdokia Tsambazi. There is no listed issue for this couple. It would be in accordance with the naming procedure that the first son of this couple would be named Iakovos (Jack in English) and that this Jack would name his first born son Anthony (for Antonios) after his grandfather, Antonios, listed above. The time frames and the names of Jack and Anthony work well for this theory, thus connecting Eva and Samantha through their great grandfather. Where this scenario falls down is that the daughter of Jack in Queensland should have been named Evdokia (Eva) after the grandmother. But Jack's Australian wife was named Eva so maybe they departed from the naming procedure because of this or because the Aussie mother declined to do so for her daughter. Food for thought. Eva may be able to confirm if her grandfather's elder brother had family or not. Looking at website www.castellorizo.org may help to explain this better. Allan
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Post by evdokia on Oct 31, 2007 20:10:23 GMT 10
Hi Fellow Forum Members,
This is getting to be so interesting!!!! If only time would permit.
What would we do without communication & sharing.
Thanks Allan for responding to Sam, she and I may be related.
I spoke back in the 1970's to a Christina Koutsoukos, who happened to be working on radio in WA. She or her family had done some research on the Koutsoukos Family Tree, but I lost contact with her when she went back East to appear on SBS, and we never got to compare notes!
Perhaps she is a forum member, and can reply.
Keep researching Evdokia (Eva) Koutsoukos
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Post by kootsoop on Nov 13, 2007 11:25:51 GMT 10
No new information: Just an appreciation from me, Sam's cousin.
The information that Allan posted tallies with what I know of the family tree: my (and Sam's) great grandmother was Evdokia Tsambazi (though the copy of our grandparent's marriage certificate says she was Eudokia Anastasia Tsampazi).
Great! :-)
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Post by cristiancarranza on Nov 16, 2007 10:21:11 GMT 10
Talking about Koutzoukos, there are a lot of Kutzukos in Camboriú, Brazil. They are all cousins of my mother in law, Kyrana Constantino Spyrides. Briefly, Dimitri Kutzukos married Panagiota Christofis (Kyrana´s aunt) and the had four children: João (John), George, Helena and Apóstolos. Does any Koutzoukus in this thread have a link with Dimitri?
Regards!
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Post by spartalis on May 9, 2008 3:42:24 GMT 10
I wonder if anyone would know a Katerna Koutsoukos (born in Castellorizo) who widowed a few weeks after her marriage in Castellorizo, them remarried Nicholas Spartalis in 1928 and immigrated that same year to Australia. She had no children and died in 1949 in Sydney, AUS. I wonder who were her parents and siblings.
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Post by Administrator on May 9, 2008 8:05:07 GMT 10
Aikaterini (Katerna) Ioannou Koutsoukou married Spyros Yeorgiou Fermanis on 5 February 1906. Aikaterini's father was Ioannis Konstandinou Koutsoukos.
As you have observed, Spyros died soon after the marriage, and Aikaterini re-married on 12 October 1914 (not 1928) to Nikolaos Stavrianou Spartalis. By the time of her second marriage, her father had also died, and her two brothers, Iakovos & Mihail, had assumed responsibility for her and they signed her (new) dowry contract on her behalf.
Let me know if you would like further information.
Nicholas
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Post by spartalis on May 9, 2008 13:53:17 GMT 10
Thank you so much, Nicholas for the fast and accurate reply. So exciting to be able to find out this information on Katerna's past! You made my day! Since you seem to have a crystal ball, I wonder if you could tell me her father's death date and also her mother's name and birth or death info. Did Katerna have more siblings other than the two brothers you've mentioned? Any birth or death info on them? All this info will go in the genealogy tree I'm creating for the family. Thank you so much!
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Post by cressie on May 10, 2008 23:10:46 GMT 10
Hi 'Spartalis'
Aikaterini Nicholaos Spartalis died in Sydney in March 1954. The death indexes nominate her parents as John and Helen. She was buried at Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park on 17 Mar 1954 at Plot G14 Gen FM 14 Grave 1199. She was nominated as aged 67 yrs. This seems to be the correct person.
Regards Allan
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 9, 2008 22:27:59 GMT 10
Hi Nicholas and MS Spartalis,I haven`t been on this site for a while due to work commitments.I need to clear a few inaccuracies about Katerina Koutsoukos raised by spartalis and commented by you on the 9 may 2008.Katerina Koutsoukos was the second youngest in a family of 5 sibblings .She had 1 older sister called Polixene who married Michael Stamatiou who went to Athens. She also had 3 brothers Jack (Yiacoumis), Michael and Dimitri .Katerina was a daughter of wealthy land owners .Her parents John and Helen Koutsoukis owned and managed the biggest ambelia or farm land on kastelorizo and it is still owned by us to day.My granderfather`s sister was married to Fermanis ownly for a year .She was not a widow when she married Nikolo Spartalis.She quickly had instead divorced her first husband when it was discovered that he had the fatal and contagious disease called tuberculosis.The Fermanis family had concealed this from her.My grandfather Michael and his brother then found another respectable person that could match their family's social status. Great uncle Nikolo was the match.Katerina married him in 1914 however she did not migrate to sydney australia till 1928.IF YOU WANT TO KNOW any thing about the Koutsoukis family please confer with me. I`ve been a member of The Restoration of Megisti now for some 20 years.Our society has duplicate copies of the Kastelorizian wedding contracts that were copied from the originals in Rhodes more than 30 years ago.I will be posting a 1928 wedding photo of Dimitri koutsoukis and his wife taken in castellorizo very shortly.There are a lot of many castelorizian famalies in this incredible photo.Michael.J.Kkoutsoukis
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Post by spartalis on Jul 10, 2008 4:29:33 GMT 10
Michael, Thank you so much for the information. I had no idea about her divorcing her first husband. As you mentioned, she married Nicholas Spartalis in 1914. I wonder if you know what year Nicholas immigrated to Sydney, AU? I heard she was in no hurry to join him in the Fish & Chip Shop in Sydney because she had a very comfortable life with maids in Kastellorizo. I heard it took her seven years to join him, does that sound right? Also, I wonder if you'd have any pictures of her wedding or any pictures of her at all? And, finally, I would so appreciate any information you may have on the Spartalis family those days such as their social status, occupation, talents...anything.
Thanks a lot for your posting.
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Post by spartalis on Jul 10, 2008 7:45:13 GMT 10
Michael, One more thing. I just visited www.castellorizo.org and searched the surname Koutsoukos where I found the names of Aikaterini Koutsoukou and her parents, but they are not linked to most of the Koutsoukos listed in there (who are the descendents of Jacobos Koutsoukos and his first wife Chrisafina Liveris or his second wife Despina Achis). Do you know if Aikaterini's family is related to the other Koutsoukos. If so, how do they connect? Thanks again. I can't wait to see the wedding picture you said you'll soon post here.
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Post by cressie on Jul 10, 2008 10:09:38 GMT 10
Hi Spartalis/Michael and Others
Thanks to the info from Michael, one of the various lines of Koutsoukos(is) we have documented on the geni site seems to connect to his. I previously had a Constantine Koustoukos marrying a Chrissafina Toulouza and they had nine known children born between 1882 and 1902. Most of the children ended up in Perth or Sydney and we have quite a bit of info on these families. They named their eldest son Jack and eldest daughter Polixeny. The same naming order as Ioannis and Eleni did, that Michael describes. It would seem because of the same time frames and the same naming order that they would both be brothers and the children of Iokovos (Jacobus) Koutsoukos and his wife Xania Stasae (whose details came from Eva Koutsoukos some years ago). There are a few more lines to tie in but this is great progress back to the early 1800's.
Regards Allan Perth WA PS. Who is heading to Cazzie in Sept 2008
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 10, 2008 12:32:18 GMT 10
TO REPLY 13 AQND 14 Hi ms Spartalis Cressie and others.To the KOUTSOUKIS`OR KOUTSOUKOS`who are descendants of Constantine j koutsoukis who was the Lord Mayor of Kastellorizo for a short time in the early 1900`s.Please take note my Great Grandfather John koutsoukis the Landowner was the elder brother of Constantine J koutsoukis .Their father was jack J koutsoukis.As you quite rightly said Cressie they can be traced back from my direcT line to the late 1700`s.But here is the problem .During the great migrations and settlements there was also a lot of greek anatolian people who changed their name to koutsoukis so as they could be accepted more socially.Thelegitimate koutsoukis` called these people KARYATSANI meaning the pretenders.OUR REAL KOUTSOUKIS LINE goes back to nearly 500 years.At the moment I have contacted a group of koutsoukis people living in andros.These people are also land owners and one of them has evidence that two brothers who were koutsoukis`s had left Andros as far back as 1540 to go and start a business in Castelorizo.
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 10, 2008 16:09:16 GMT 10
Hi peoples, id like to thank my son John for uploading this photograph! This photo is the wedding of my grandfathers brother Dimitris Koutsoukos. CLICK IMAGE. I'll give a few basics the gambro and nifi in the photo are self explanitory my grandmother Malaksodia Koutsoukos (Kizzilas maiden name) is on the right of the nifi. My grandfather Michael is the one standing directly behind the koumbaro with a greyish moustache head leaning slightly forward. My father John is the boy in front of the koumbaro carrying a large plate. His sister Eleni my aunty is the girl paralell to him wearing a hat standing directly in front of my grand mother. The biggest of the boys on the left hand side is Michalis Hondros. There are alot of people to name anyone wanting to ask ill do my best to answer.
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 10, 2008 20:08:40 GMT 10
Hi ms Spartalis, The wedding photo of Nicolo and katerna was destroyed or stolen during the time of the second world war when the iinhabitants had to leave their houses and shopsand go to Gaza in PALESTINE.The koutsoukis house like so many others was looted.LUCKILY my fathers and mothers family houses were not bombed or burnt unlike so many others who totally lost everything.I remember grand uncle Nicolo in the late 50`s and late60`s when I was growing up.He outlived his wife katerina by 10 years.I remember him living in a terrace house that he owned not very far from the old cassie club which was in oxford st city.He was atall man who was always very well dressed.He was polite and serious but always willing to help new young Greek migrants to seetle in their new country.I can also remember my father telling me that he had a fish shpo in Tempe. He was avery well liked and colourfull character.Michael,j koutsoukis
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Post by spartalis on Jul 11, 2008 1:25:49 GMT 10
Hello, Michael. Thanks for posting the beautiful wedding picture! It was fun to put some faces to the names we've been discussing here. I'd like to know the bride's maiden name.
Also, going back a few generations, what's the groom's mother's maiden name ( Eleni...)?
By the way, thanks so much for writing about your memories of your great-uncle Nicholas Spartalis. On an earlier posting you mentioned Contantine J. Koutsoukos was Lord Mayor in Kastellorizo. Do you know what year was that? Do you know if he and Mihail Stavrianou Spartalis were acquaintances since Mihail was the second deputy Mayor in 1928 while Ioannis Lakerdis was the mayor? Thanks a lot.
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Post by Administrator on Jul 11, 2008 15:14:02 GMT 10
Michael, Thaks for posting this wonderful wedding photograph. I hope that others follow your lead with their own photos! I have taken the liberty of reproducing the photo here with numbers over each person pictured: The persons I have identified to date, adding to those you have already identified for us, are as follows: 1. 2. Antonis Mihalakis 3. 4. Ioannis M. Stamatoglou 5. Mihalis N Stamatoglou 6. Mihalis I Koutsoukos 7. Venedictos M Livissianis 8. Stamatis M Stamatoglou 9. 10. 11. Polixeni (Xenia) M. Stamatoglou (nee Koutsoukou) 12. Konstandinia Kyr. Hondrou 13. Michalis Kyr. Hondros 14. 15. 16. 17. Ioannis M. Koutsoukos 18. 19. 20. 21. Nikolas M. Stamatoglou 22. Eleni I. Koutsoukou (nee Hatzimihalaki) 23. 24. 25. Dimitris I Koutsoukos (groom) 26. Panagiota Y Christofi (bride) 27. ? Moschos 28. 29. 30. 31. Simeon Alexiou (priest) 32. Kyriaki Y Christofi 33. 34. Apostolos Nikandros (priest) 35. 36. Malaxoudia M Koutsoukou 37. 38. 39. Irini Pan. Fermani 40. 41. Kostas Papastefanou (priest) 42. Vartholomeos Pissas (priest) 43. 44. Agapitos Y Fermanis 45. Mihalis Stav. Spartalis 46. Antonis Stav. Exintaris 47. 48. 49. 50. 51. 52. Maria Kyr. Hondrou 53. 54. Eleni M. Koutsoukou From the dowry records, we are able to confirm the date of the wedding as 24 July 1927. If people are able to identify more of the people pictured, they should post the details below and I will modify this post with the new information. Nicholas
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 11, 2008 15:39:51 GMT 10
Thank you Nicholas for numbering the photo and saving me the trouble! Here are a few people we can add to the list. 4. Is the Koumbaro's brother Yiannis Stamatoglou 13. Michalis Hondros 21. Nikolo M Stamatiou (Stamatoglou) 22. Is my great-grandmother Eleni (Hatzimihalakis) Koutsoukos
Polyxeni is the sister to Michalis (my grandfather) and Dimitri she married a Stamatiou or Stamatoglou. The groom and the best man are actually uncle and nephew the koumbaro is Polyxenis son as she got married at the age of 15 hence her children were not much younger then their uncles.
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 11, 2008 19:37:39 GMT 10
Hi MS Spartalis, I believe that Constantine J Koutsoukos was Lord Mayor between 1900-1905 Your relative Mihalis stav Spartalis is also in the Koutsoukis wedding photo at number45 Great Uncle Nicolo Spartalis and Katerna nee koutsoukos were in Sydney at this time.So was my Grandfathers other brother Jack yacovo koutsoukis.Please tell me ms spartalis what is the relationship between you and M S Spartalis? Are you his granddaughter from the eldest son Steve?Or are you the daughter of one of Steves brothersI think I've worked out who you are?I've revealed my identity it's only fair that you reveal yours.By the way I liked your article about the early migration of Castellorizians to Brazil.My Gt Uncle Dimitri Koutsoukos and his bride who are in the photo .Left castellorizo shortly after their wedding to settle in BrazilThe brides familywere castellorizians from Brazil.We are quite close to our koutsoukis cousines from Brazil.They came for a visit to sydney just two years ago. Michael J Koutsoukis
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thea
New Member
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Post by thea on Jul 11, 2008 22:13:12 GMT 10
Eva, Just found a new line of cousins that we didnt know about from my father's side (Protomastorou) and from reading above seems we have mutual cousins. Ekaterina Koutsoukos daughter Eleni Photiou Sergi married Dimitri Protomastorou who was my grandfather's brother whom we didnt know existed. Dimitri's descendants did not come to Australia but went to Egypt. I found Dimitri's granddaugher (Katerina's great grand daughter) through Facebook. She lives in Athens. Her name is Katerina Protomastorou. She has 2 sisters and 1 brother. It is so exciting to find relations you didnt know existed and of course wished you had asked your parents more. Regards Thea Sydney
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 11, 2008 23:15:23 GMT 10
EVA, I`M sorry but I cant see who your family is related to our familyline .Is their some misunderstanding?Michael J Koutsoukis
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thea
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Post by thea on Jul 12, 2008 0:02:41 GMT 10
Michael, My message was for Eva Koutsoukis who mentioned she had a Chrisafina Liveris on her side of the family. Chrisafina's daughter was Ekaterina Koutsoukos. This information I got from the castellorizo.org site. Regards Thea
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Post by spartalis on Jul 12, 2008 1:09:47 GMT 10
Dear Michael, Thanks for the reply. Thanks for pointing out that Michael Spartalis is on the wedding photo. I'm not his direct descendant. My great grandfather Georgios Stavrianou Spartalis was his youngest brother though. My great grandfather went to Brazil in 1910 at age 16 where he later married and raised his family in Parana. I don't know if anyone knew him or remembers him in Kastellorizo since he was so young when he left. Some relatives believe Michael Spartalis accompanied George to Brazil in 1910 and later returned home alone. In fact, I wonder if anyone knows any details about that?
I'm glad you enjoyed reading about the Kastellorizian immigration to Brazil in the late 1800. I believe the "word of mouth"sparkled the interest of many others to follow later on, including my great grandfather. I was born in Brazil but live in the US since I married an American 11 years ago. Thanks for your postings. It has made for a fun week at Castellorizo Forum. Cristina Andrews
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Post by evdokia on Jul 16, 2008 23:46:49 GMT 10
Hi Fellow Forum Members, Thea re you posting - KOUTSOUKOS:
My greatgrandfather Iacovos Koustsoukos married Chrisafina Liveris. My grandfather Elias Koutsoukos is their 5th child.
Iacovos married his 2nd wife Despina Achis, and had a futher 3 children with her.
My dilema is when my grandfather Elias Koutsoukos married, his wife's name was Evdokia Koutsoukos - yet they were not related. Her parents were Georgios Koutsoukos & Christina Karazepounis.
If it wasn't for diligent people like Allan Cresswell, I would not be able to put the jig saw together.
Due to work committments, I am unable to visit & post as much as I would like.
Thanks Nicholas for the opportunity, which enables all of us to get together - far and wide. Without this site there would be no forum.
Thanks to Allan Cresswell for sharing his passion, and for jolting me when I have not taken part.
Regards to all Evdokia (Eva) Koutsoukos
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Post by mjkoutsoukis on Jul 18, 2008 13:39:36 GMT 10
Edvokia, does your family line go to Constantine koutsoukos .Constantines elder brother was my GT GT GRANDFATHER jOHN J KOUTSOUKOS.Their father was jACK OR YACOVOS KOUTSOUKIS.Some of my family members think that my GT Grandfather and his broher may have had a younger brother called George or Terry whose descendants went to Italy Athens and Newcastle in Australia.Allso,in thephone book listing for the state of California, in the Unitted States the listing for koutsoukos- koutsoukis numbers 30 listings.Im pretty sure that my original line must go back many hundreds of years to Andros.Where do you think my family comes into contact with yours?Also please consider also that Gt GT GRANDFATHER Jack or Yacovos koutsoukos who may have been your GT GT Grandfathers cousine also had 5 daughters.Whilst his son john j koutsoukos also had 5 daughters apatrt from the two or possibly 3 sons Ive already mentioned.Michael.J.Koutsoukis.
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Post by jmk1988 on Jan 31, 2017 9:36:47 GMT 10
Good morning everyone my name is John M Koutsoukis.
My late father posted on this this thread Michael J Koutsoukis we are the descendants of Ioannis Koutsoukos (my great-great grandfather) who was the elder brother of Konstantinos Koutsoukos who was the Lord Mayor of Kastellorizo during the early 20th Century.
I've come back to this thread after nearly a decade looking for a photograph I helped my dad upload! I cant seem to find it at home it was a wedding shot of my great-grandfather's brother Dimitris Koutsoukos whose descendants now live in Curitiba, Brazil.
Admin if you have a copy of this photo would you be able to kindly upload it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by cressie on Feb 6, 2017 23:01:02 GMT 10
Hi John
I have a copy of the photo. It was only a small file placed originally on this site but I have tried to enlarge it to a reasonable resolution. I will email you the file. Where the photo was stored on this forum (imageshack) has closed down. Luckily I downloaded it before the site was taken down. I also have the copy with the people numbered.
Regards
Allan Cresswell
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